Come To Me Inn - Cozy Peaceful Lakefront Cabin, Get Away & Be On Lake Time.
Welcome to lakefront living, where you will be On Lake Time!!
This adorable 2-bedroom, 1 bathroom cabin is perfect for couples & families who are looking to relax and to just get away. Whether you choose excursions on and around Grand Lake, Lake Huron, or venture further around the Sunrise Coast, you will enjoy the sites & scenery as you get to know Northeast Michigan.
Check in is self-check in, where you will be given an unique access code to the door a few days before your arrival. The code locks and unlocks the side door, and will be yours for your time there.
The kitchen is fully furnished with a propane stove/oven, Mr Coffee programmable coffee maker and a Keurig coffee machine, refrigerator, microwave and toaster, as well as pots/pans. We furnish plenty of options for the Keurig machine, including hot chocolate pods for the kids. Both bedrooms are furnished, both with queen beds, and the living room couch pulls out and can sleep 1 or 2 more people. Bathroom towels, bedding and pillows are all provided. The living room is furnished with a couch, love seat, and armchair, with a wide screen TV with YouTube TV for your use. High speed internet is provided through Spectrum WiFi.
All of the bedroom windows are new, with double hung windows to enjoy the cool night air. All of the rooms have ceiling fans with speed controls. The kitchen windows are also new. There is a new storm door off the deck with a retractable screen to keep bugs out and lets the cool lake breezes in.
Outdoors you will find an attached deck with propane gas grill and smoker, patio furniture for 6 people to enjoy meals, all with views of Grand Lake. In the evenings you can enjoy the fire pit on the deck. The lower patio is down a flight of stairs to the lake, where you will find kayaks, fire pit, and dock. Spend the day swimming off the dock, and lounge in the sun on the swimming platform. Or use the kayaks to explore Grand Lake, or even go fishing off of them. The dock is available for your boat or your boat rental. There is a boat lift available (for extra charge) with remote control with powered lift if you choose to rent a pontoon boat. (See below) Grand Lake is an excellent fishing lake with plenty of places to go. A public boat launch is only 5 minutes away. Grand Lake is also excellent for water skiing, sailing, or anchoring your boat and spending the day on the boat.
So, start your day with a hot coffee with a view of the sunrise, and end your day with a warm fire and drink by the lake with a view of the wonderful, colorful sunsets, toasting marshmallows with the kids.
We have furnished the cabin with the following kayaks for your use: * Fiji 8SS sit on kayak. * 10 ft kayak, sit on * 12 ft kayak, sit in * (2) 14 ft kayaks, 2 person, adjustable to 1 person, sit on. We also provide life jackets for your use. The kayaks are stored on a kayak-tree for easy storage,
There are plenty of nearby roads that are lightly traveled that are perfect for biking or walking. There are plenty of choices for nearby trails through the state parks as well for those hiking enthusiasts.
Places to eat nearby: > Woody's - Sand Bay - 5 minutes to north end of the lake on CR638. > Hide Away Bar - 10 minutes south on US23 > Parker House Restaurant - 10 minutes south on US23. > Fireside Inn - 15 minutes around the lake. Not a "restaurant", but they serve all you can eat breakfasts, and a specific dinner every night. Reservations required for dinner, but not for breakfast. This is a great breakfast !! (Breakfast is usually 9-10am, but longer on weekends. Dinner is 5 -6:30pm.) You can also drive your boat up to their docks. > Potage Store, located at the Presque Isle Harbor, a deli sandwich store with ice cream window, sells basic items (milk, butter, beer, pop, etc) as well as T-shirts and trinkets. > Austin Brothers Brewery - On Miller Street off Johnson Street in Alpena. Lunch & dinner (noon to 8 pm) > Birch Hill - 20 minutes around lake. A coffee and danish cafe with outdoor seating and wifi. > Mango - located in downtown Alpena. Great if you feel for Mexican fare.
See Guest Guide located inside cabin with menus.
Local sightseeing: 10-15 minutes away > Presque Isle Beach Clubhouse (requires our membership cards). > Old & New Presque Isle Light Houses. Awesome backdrop for family photos for Christmas cards, and grad pictures. > Thompson State Park. > North Bay Beach, Lake Huron > Besser Natural Area and beach. > Presque Isle Harbor (ice cream shop across the street, perfect for evening strolling as there is little traffic, other than golf carts) > Range Light beach > Kayak the Grand Lake outlet to Lake Huron (hope the beavers haven't been at work)
20+ minutes away attractions: > Sacred Rock - historic Native American rock (20 ft long, 8 ft wide, 4 ft tall) located a mile north of PH Hoeft State Park, near Rogers City. A mile hike along lakeshore from the state Park. > Ocqueoc Falls (25 mins) > Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary (25 mins) > Knaebes Apple Farm (20 min) - awesome in the fall > Great Lakes Maritime Heritage Center (25 mins) > Golf (Alpena Golf Club, Rogers City Country Club, Thunder Bay Resort (45), Garland Resort (70 mins), multiple options in Gaylord (90 mins) > Mackinac City & Mackinac Island (90 mins)
Boat Rentals (schedule this early if you're interested, they sell out): > Grand Lake Marina (Presque Isle), on Grand Lake; Greg Kowalski (989) 595-3365 > Dodge Marina (989-595-5040) > Tommy's Boat Rentals (Walloon Lake); they will deliver for minimum 3 day rental. (231) 675-7984 Katie Hicks. As we also have our own boat lift on site, if you rent a pontoon boat, please contact us to see if your rental will fit on the lift., as lift is designed for our boat.
Our dock is available from Memorial Day to Labor Day. It is furnished with heavy duty cleats for tying your boat to.
Things to bring: Your own food and drinks, sunscreen, water shoes, beach towels, fishing poles & equipment if you want to fish from the kayaks or the dock; and golf clubs if you plan to golf. You should also plan on bringing your own toiletries, other than our standard hand soaps, shampoo & conditioner, and body wash. We will have a hair dryer, but you will need to furnish anything more than that. While we will have standard sizes for life jackets, if you feel more comfortable bringing your own, please do so.
During the fall, we are available through October for those that want to come north and see all the colors.
In the winter, we are available for snowmobilers and those seeking to ice fish
Accommodatie-voorzieningen
Strand
Strand in de buurt
Internet
Beschikbaar in de boshut: gratis wifi
Parkeren en vervoer
Parkeerplekken ter plaatse
Keuken
Blender
Broodrooster
Elektrische waterkoker
Keukenpapier
Koelkast
Koffiezetapparaat/waterkoker
Kookgerei, borden en bestek
Kookplaat
Kruiden
Microgolfoven
Oven
Slaapkamers
2 slaapkamers
Beddengoed inbegrepen
Badkamer
1 badkamer
Bad of douche
Haardroger
Handdoeken inbegrepen
Shampoo
Toiletpapier
Zeep
Woonruimtes
Houtkachel
Open haard
Woonkamer
Entertainment
Smart-tv
Buiten
Gasbarbecue
Patio
Tuin
Tuinmeubels
Vuurplaats
Wasvoorzieningen
Wasmachine
Wasserette
Werkplekken
Bureau
Comfort
Verwarming
Huisdieren
Geen huisdieren toegelaten
Toegankelijkheidsvoorzieningen
Heb je specifieke toegankelijkheidsbehoeften? Neem dan contact op met de accommodatie via de contactgegevens in de boekingsbevestiging.
5 treden naar de ingang
Geen lift (gelijkvloerse accommodatie)
Gladde vloer in gemeenschappelijke ruimtes
Goed verlicht pad naar de ingang
Hardhouten vloer in gemeenschappelijke ruimtes
Tapijten in gemeenschappelijke ruimtes
Visuele alarmen in de gangen
Rookvrije accommodatie
Diensten en faciliteiten
Strijkijzer/strijkplank
Uitgelichte locatiekenmerken
Aan een meer
Aan het water
Dicht bij de baai
Dicht bij de jachthaven
Dicht bij een outletcentrum
Dicht bij een ziekenhuis
In een dorp
Dingen om te doen
Boot
Golf
Kajak
Watersportuitrusting
Fietsmogelijkheid in de buurt
Golfbaan in de buurt
Jetskiën in de buurt
Kajakken in de buurt
Motorbootverhuur in de buurt
Natuurwandelingen in de buurt
Scubaduiken in de buurt
Sneeuwscooteren in de buurt
Snorkelen in de buurt
Vismogelijkheid in de buurt
Vogelspotten in de buurt
Waterskiën in de buurt
Watertuben in de buurt
Zeilen in de buurt
Zwemmogelijkheid in de buurt
Veiligheidsvoorzieningen
Koolmonoxidemelder (de eigenaar heeft aangegeven dat er een koolmonoxidemelder aanwezig is in de accommodatie)
Rookmelder (de eigenaar heeft aangegeven dat er een rookmelder aanwezig is in de accommodatie)
In- en uitchecken zonder direct persoonlijk contact
Minimale leeftijd om in te checken: 23
Uitchecken
Uitchecken voor 11.00 uur
Contactloos uitchecken
Speciale incheckinstructies
Je ontvangt een e-mail van de eigenaar met instructies over het in- en uitchecken
De informatie die de accommodatie verstrekt, is mogelijk vertaald met automatische vertaaltools
Uitcheckinstructies
De eigenaar vraagt je het volgende te doen voordat je uitcheckt:
Gebruikte bedden aftrekken en gebruikte handdoeken verzamelen
Persoonlijke voorwerpen verwijderen, restjes eten en drinken weggooien en het vuilnis wegbrengen
De lichten uitdoen en de deuren op slot doen
Please wash any used towels and linens. If the blankets or comforters are dirty, please wash also. Please use Quick Wash option on washer. Place cleaned towels in dryer in normal mode.
Als je deze instructies niet volgt, kan dit leiden tot een negatieve beoordeling door de eigenaar.
Huisdieren
Geen huisdieren toegelaten
Kinderen en extra bedden
Kinderen zijn welkom.
Evenementen
No events allowed
Roken
Smoking is not permitted
Belangrijke informatie
Algemene info
Deze accommodatie wordt beheerd door een particuliere eigenaar, d.w.z. een persoon die niet handelt vanuit zijn/haar vakgebied, bedrijf of beroep. De consumentenwetgeving van de EU, met inbegrip van het herroepingsrecht, is niet van toepassing op je boeking. Voor je boeking geldt het annuleringsbeleid van de particuliere eigenaar.
Afhankelijk van het accommodatiebeleid kan voor extra personen een toeslag worden aangerekend.
Tijdens het inchecken dien je in het geval van incidentele kosten mogelijk een geldig identiteitsbewijs voor te leggen en een borgsom in contanten, per bankkaart of kredietkaart te betalen.
Speciale verzoeken kunnen, indien mogelijk, bij check-in worden ingewilligd. Hiervoor kunnen extra kosten worden aangerekend. Speciale verzoeken kunnen niet worden gegarandeerd.
Feesten of groepsevenementen ter plaatse zijn ten strengste verboden
Langdurige huurders welkom.
De eigenaar heeft aangegeven dat er een koolmonoxidemelder aanwezig is in de accommodatie.
De eigenaar heeft aangegeven dat er een rookmelder aanwezig is in de accommodatie.
De accommodatie beschikt over de volgende veiligheidsvoorzieningen: een brandblusapparaat, een EHBO-koffer en een veiligheidsslot
Deze accommodatie wordt beheerd via onze partner, Vrbo. Je ontvangt een e-mail van Vrbo met een link naar een Vrbo-account, waarmee je je boeking kunt aanpassen of annuleren.
Over deze buurt
dit huisje ligt aan het water in Presque Isle. Bezoek Presque Isle Rear Range Lighthouse en Old Presque Isle Light, enkele lokale bezienswaardigheden. Als je wilt genieten van de prachtige natuur, ga dan naar Huronmeer en Rockport State Park. Profiteer van het feit dat je dicht aan het water ligt door deel te nemen aan activiteiten zoals jetskiën, kajakken en duiken. De regio biedt ook avontuurlijkere activiteiten zoals fietsen. Bekijk onze reisgids voor Presque Isle
Alpena, Michigan (APN-Regionale luchthaven Alpena County) - 31 min. rijden
Restaurants
Parker House
7 min. rijden
Sand Bay Trading Co & Woody’s Grand Lake
7 min. rijden
Daily Limit
4 min. rijden
The Grand Lake Daily Limit
4 min. rijden
Grand Lake Lounge
4 min. rijden
Veelgestelde vragen
Zijn huisdieren welkom bij Come To Me Inn - Cozy Peaceful Lakefront Cabin, Get Away & Be On Lake Time.?
Nee, assistentiedieren zijn niet welkom bij deze accommodatie.
Hoeveel kost het om hier te parkeren?
Er zijn parkeerplaatsen beschikbaar bij de accommodatie.
Hoe laat kan ik bij Come To Me Inn - Cozy Peaceful Lakefront Cabin, Get Away & Be On Lake Time. inchecken?
Inchecken is mogelijk vanaf 16.00 uur.
Tot hoe laat kan ik bij Come To Me Inn - Cozy Peaceful Lakefront Cabin, Get Away & Be On Lake Time. uitchecken?
Je dient om uiterlijk 11.00 uur uit te checken.
Waar staat Come To Me Inn - Cozy Peaceful Lakefront Cabin, Get Away & Be On Lake Time.?
Dit huisje ligt aan het water, op enkele stappen van Grand Lake en op 10 km van Grand Lake Roadside Park en Grand Lake Marina. Ook Fletcher-Gilchrist Park en Allen Island liggen op 15 km afstand.
Beoordelingen over Come To Me Inn - Cozy Peaceful Lakefront Cabin, Get Away & Be On Lake Time.
Beoordelingen
Uitzonderlijk
Alle weergegeven beoordelingen zijn gebaseerd op echte gastenervaringen. Alleen reizigers die een verblijf bij ons hebben geboekt, kunnen een beoordeling indienen. We verifiëren beoordelingen op basis van onze richtlijnen en plaatsen alle beoordelingen, of ze nu positief of negatief zijn.
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Nice place on the lake.
Cozy cabin with great views.
4 nachten verbleven in augustus 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Heather G.
6 aug 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Lovely lake views and comfortable cabin! We loved having the kayaks right there to use. A thoughtful welcome gift greeted us. We thoroughly enjoyed our trip!
4 nachten verbleven in augustus 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
courtney w.
22 aug 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Lovely cottage with a sweet welcome gift. Kayaking and sunset off the dock were amazing!
3 nachten verbleven in augustus 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Alexander D.
9 aug 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Short Getaway
Amazing hospitality and very clean, cozy lake house. Thank you for everything!
2 nachten verbleven in juli 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Nicole A.
17 aug 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Beautiful location! Perfect spot for a relaxing girls weekend! The cabin was clean and cozy! Communication was good and we even arrived to a nice surprise gift!!Definitely will consider staying again.
2 nachten verbleven in augustus 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Carly L.
13 aug 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
My family had a wonderful stay at the Come to Me Inn! Easy to access, clean, comfy cottage with a lovely view of Grand Lake! My husband and son took advantage of the kayaks available, I took advantage of the seats on the deck ;) The hosts left a lovely welcome bag with treats and activities for our son. We would definitely stay again if visiting this side of the state!
3 nachten verbleven in augustus 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Karen M.
17 jul 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Peaceful lakefront bliss
Awesome stay...nicer than photos show. Very well stocked and appointed. So close to things but quiet relaxing place away from crowds.
7 nachten verbleven in juli 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
8/10 – Goed
Lindsay B.
15 aug 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Close to a lot of outdoor activities, small but snug cabin. Wish it had AC but the high-powered ceiling fans really helped
4 nachten verbleven in augustus 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Christy H.
23 jun 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Peaceful stay
I definitely would stay here again if they had a window air conditioner. It would be 100% perfect for our annual vacation
7 nachten verbleven in juni 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Edward J. N.
14 sep 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Michigan trip 2024
We loved the whole experience. We'll definitely be back in the future.
3 nachten verbleven in september 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Jaclyn G.
8 jul 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Perfect cabin
Cabin was perfect for our family trip! Nice, cozy and quiet on the water. Appreciated the easy access to kayaks. Host was responsive to any questions we had.
5 nachten verbleven in juli 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Lori A.
19 jul 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
I brought four of my grandsons for an adventure to explore the area and we had a blast!! The cabin (we called it a cottage) was so comfortable we had everything we needed for a fun adventure! Our host was super helpful with suggestions of places to go and surprised us with thoughtful items to make our stay even more special. The lake is beautiful and it is quiet and peaceful...so relaxing!!! I highly recommend a stay at the Inn!
4 nachten verbleven in juli 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
kathleen b.
13 okt 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Relaxing 😌
Our visit was great I just wish the weather had cooperated so we could have enjoyed the deck
2 nachten verbleven in oktober 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Chris F.
30 aug 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Nice place with nice view
This was a nice cottage with a nice view over the lake. We enjoyed our stay and the owner was very responsive. I was there with my Dad who has limited mobility and the steps down to the lake were a bit steep for him however this wouldn’t be an issue for most. Overall very happy with our stay.
3 nachten verbleven in augustus 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Alana J.
24 aug 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Beautiful
The place was beautiful! Even better than the pictures! Yes there’s a set of steep stairs to the water but there’s a railing to hold on to! Nice getaway for the hubs and I before school starts!
3 nachten verbleven in augustus 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Michael A.
13 okt 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Fall Getaway
A well kept and well stocked cottage with beautiful views of Grand Lake. Friendly neighborhood on a tucked-away drive. The host communicated everything very well. Being halfway between Rogers City and Alpena, this remote spot has plenty within easy driving distance.
2 nachten verbleven in oktober 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Tracy T.
23 jun 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Cute Cabin on Nice Lake
Our family of three enjoyed our stay, fishing, hunting fossils, hiking, and relaxing. The hosts clearly made an effort to make our stay enjoyable. They supplied some essentials and left extra touches to welcome us. We had a storm that caused some issues and the host was very accommodating. Very nice neighborhood. Quiet and perfect for a relaxing vacation.
7 nachten verbleven in juni 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Dave D.
23 jun 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Great location
Me and my Nephew stayed here for a long weekend. It is a great location for exploring the area. We went as far as St. Ignase for a day trip. The cottage was clean when we arrived and had everything we needed as far as towels, kitchen items, toiletries. I was surprised to see a smoker there for use, we did use the grill. The furniture is comfortable. Over all I would definitely come back.
3 nachten verbleven in juni 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Teresa M.
9 jun 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Absolutely Wonderful!
My husband and I stayed here for a long weekend to re-charge before starting the busy summer season (we have 3 kids). We had a wonderful time! Cozy cabin had everything we needed! We were on the water everyday. Love the kayaks! Enjoyed grilling, having fires, relaxing on the deck and by the water. Perfect location to unwind. Comfortable beds and very peaceful area. We will definitely return. Thank you!
2 nachten verbleven in juni 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Bryan B.
14 jul 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
An Amazing Cabin for an Amazing Weekend
What a great time on Grand Lake. We drove up from Ohio for a short weekend of fishing and swimming in the lake and it didn't disappoint. The cabin had everything we needed to grill, swim and fish. The boys were in the kayaks 15 minutes after pulling in. They did their best to catch every perch in the lake. I can't recommend staying here enough. The cabin fit our group of 3 perfectly. The hosts made kayaks and a swimming pad available for the boys to use and left them of a gift to make smores. Just a great stay all around.
3 nachten verbleven in juli 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Janie C.
22 sep 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Cabin with a breathtaking view
Found this lovely cabin through VRBO and so happy I did. It was everything and more. The location to where we wanted to explore and entertainment right at the cabin itself with the lake just being steps down on the property. The host was very accommodating and offered ideas of places to eat in the area and had kayaks and life jackets for our use. The host was available as soon as I had a question and was more than helpful in solving whatever I needed. I 100% recommend this cozy cabin on the lake, my husband and I had a great getaway staying there.
5 nachten verbleven in september 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Lynn H.
10 sep 2025
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
We had a great stay. The house was clean and stocked with amenities such as coffee, creamer, shampoo etc… Todd left kayaks out for us to use. Unfortunately the weather didn’t cooperate. But we appreciated that he had them out for us. Check in was easy and Todd communicated with me very quickly. The house is in Grand Lake and was a good home base for exploring the surrounding areas. This is our second stay and we will be back again. They also left us a gift bag with items to make s’mores and other goodies. Everything was very much appreciated. Great place great people!
3 nachten verbleven in september 2025
Geverifieerde beoordeling
10/10 – Voortreffelijk
Lynn H.
8 okt 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken, communicatie, locatie en accuraatheid advertentie
Quiet getaway
My husband and I enjoyed our stay at Come To Me Inn. It was clean, warm and inviting. Our host Todd left a detailed book on what to expect and to do with things such as check in/out , laundry, heating etc… he also has a good selection of coffee and creamer to use for guests to use. There’s a fire pit on the deck that we were hoping to use but after being out and about all day we were just too tired to use it. Beautiful view of the lake from the living room. Especially while we drank our coffee. This house was also nicely located for our adventures. Easy to g
3 nachten verbleven in oktober 2024
Geverifieerde beoordeling
4/10 – Slecht
Nicole V.
4 aug 2024
Positief: Netheid, inchecken en locatie
Negatief: Communicatie, accuraatheid advertentie
Misleading description
The owner described this property as a few steps to the lake, while in reality it’s at least 20 very steep steps down to the water. Also, the marina owner did not allow us to rent a boat overnight because the newly built dock is not sturdy enough for this part of the lake. The owner was not very kind when I wrote to him about this. Also, we were charged an exorbitant summer rate - not a value at all!